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lemming77
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PostSubject: Traction Control   Sun 5 Dec - 0:33

Hi,

First off, excellent work on the mod. I've spent hundreds of hours playing Rfactor with it, and I've found it to be the most enjoyable racing game I've ever played, despite the shortcomings of Rfactor. I haven't had a chance to try SP1 yet, but once the time comes to wind down and deal with the stress of our third house move in two years, then me and my dad will surely be playing the shit out of it, just like we did with v1. Which I'm looking forward to.

However after looking around, there seems to be some suggestion that we should be using traction control, and I'd like to clear that up.

Driver assists like traction control and ABS have always been a grey area for me. I always assumed I was a wimp for using them, and real men drive without them. On top of that, I thought they were prohibited by regulations in the GT cars. For this reason, whenever I drive the GT1 Aston Martin, I try to avoid all the driver assists, and it usually ends badly. :)

So what are the rules govorning the various cars on TCS and ABS? And to get the full experience, what should I have them set to?

Thanks for your time.
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Migreg
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Sun 5 Dec - 1:10

Hi,
The ABS have to be off. And with the Aston, you can drive without on major tracks, but if you do a long race, maybe, you will have to activate the TC to low, or more.
In the 908, medium is good.
The best way to know what TC you have to choose, it's to try the 4 possibility.
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MaD_King
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Sun 5 Dec - 9:39

Yes, for the ABS it's not a problem, it's not implemented in the mod, so if you activate it or not, with the ES no matter, it's disable always.

For the TC On the GT2 and GT1 like Migreg said, It's not mandatory but on some track, you have to use it at low, it's more safe. In real they have the TC on the GT and use it (at Lemans, you hear clearly the TC on the F430 and Aston around the track in some turns).

For the LMP, it's part of the cars, they use it very often, they are on some cars more than 8 position of TC in real. rFactor allow only 3 positions of TC.
I remember an interview of H.Pescarolo that said, they are in difficulties on some track because their TC is less efficient than other top team, and they work often on this to improve the TC, it was on Spa track.

So for some thinking the TC in the ALMS/LMS/LM/FIAGT is forbidden or not to use, they are false, in real the use it and more than we think.

To conclude, the TC on the Diesel cars its MANDATORY in real, they are at minimum at 3 on about 8 tick in real and when the tires are cold they shit up this value. And I not talk about car under the rain, the TC is they salvation tips to drive these beast of torque !!! (They have also a electronic system that manage the torque on the gear 1,2,3 on the 908 that divide the torque on the rear wheels by 2 in addition of the pure TC system, but in rFactor we don't have this possibility, so it's TC that manage this)

So to conclude, the mod is to be use with TC depends of track and cars.
For me I usually use TC like this with the mod :
GT2 : Never active (or rarely)
GT1 : At Low, it's more comfortable
P2s : At Low or At Medium, you can attack the curb more easier with this configuration
P1d : At Medium, And in some track at Full, depends on how you have a heavy foot on the power pedal :)
P1p : Like P2s

So now you have the reason why and hope you see the use of the TC with the good eye and not like an help for the newbies ;)
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Pandamasque
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Sun 5 Dec - 16:30

To add to the above:

On Diesels (in real life) the TC system is far less efficient (basically reacts slower) than in petrol cars. That's due to ignition systems.

FIA GT1 World Championship has TC banned. So all the GT1 cars in 2010 (including Le Mans 24h) drove with no TC.
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lemming77
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Sun 5 Dec - 22:54

Cool, I'll most likely drive with it all the time now that I know it's not cheating. :) Thank you for clearing that up, guys.
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Blacker
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Wed 22 Dec - 22:49

Just my personal experience with this mod, all 4 classes can easily be driven without TC. Indeed, the Audi and Peugeot take a lot of tweaking on the rear end of the car, and equally I find myself backing up the corners with those cars to keep from spinning them out, but I prefer driving all of them without TC.

From what has been said previously here, I assume what I understood is wrong. It was my understanding that, at least in the ALMS, traction control is prohibited. The teams do, however, build the TC into the differential systems to bypass the rule. I would think that would mean that any TC on the ALMS cars should be built into the mod, because I would think rFactor's TC is electronic TC, not mechanical TC.

Again, that was what my previous understanding was. If what the others have said before is true, which I am not in the position to say it isn't(quite the opposite actually lol), then my previous belief is wrong.

I do recall watching an ALMS race back in 2005 or 2006 at Long Beach and one of the announcers pointed out while watching the P2 cars go around that the cars did not have any TC systems besides the drivers right foot. Personally, I live by that motto. There's no better TC than your right foot -- Use it!

-Blacker.
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lemming77
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Thu 23 Dec - 0:08

That's certainly not true of me. There's certainly better traction control systems out there than my right foot. :P
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Pandamasque
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Thu 23 Dec - 0:18

@ Blacker
You probably slightly misunderstood the differential thing. It doesn't really imitate 'mechanical TC'. It's just that limited slip diff if set correctly helps to control the traction out of corners (with or without TC).
Also quite possible P2 cars in 2005 really didn't have TC. I'm not sure if it was prohibited back then or just that they didn't have the tech developed for those machines. Don't forget P2 was a relatively amateurish and low budget class back then (before Penske came).
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miRko74
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Fri 7 Jan - 18:03

MaD_King wrote:
... In real they have the TC on the GT and use it (at Lemans, you hear clearly the TC on the F430 and Aston around the track in some turns)....

Hi, I don't hear the TC sound on the F430 (low, med or max TC setting) and I can easily do "burnouts" with max TC.. is it normal?
Thanks

Mirko
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lemming77
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Sat 8 Jan - 4:55

I think the TC is set up to help once you're actually moving. It'll help stop you from spinning the wheels in a corner, but lets you off with spinning the car round from a standstill. In case you do end up spinning, and want to get back to facing the right way quickly.
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miRko74
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Sat 8 Jan - 10:36

lemming77 wrote:
I think the TC is set up to help once you're actually moving. It'll help stop you from spinning the wheels in a corner, but lets you off with spinning the car round from a standstill. In case you do end up spinning, and want to get back to facing the right way quickly.

Mmmmm, no ... to do what you say there's a button on the real 430 steering wheel called "TC override" and is well modeled in rFactor too...
:salut:

Mirko, Italy
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lemming77
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Sat 8 Jan - 10:44

Oh right, maybe not then. :)

I know the button is simulated in rFactor, having used it in other mods myself, but I wasn't sure whether that was one of those things which applies on a per-car basis.
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miRko74
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Sat 8 Jan - 10:58

lemming77 wrote:
Oh right, maybe not then. :)

I know the button is simulated in rFactor, having used it in other mods myself, but I wasn't sure whether that was one of those things which applies on a per-car basis.

If we can hear the TC engine cut off sound on real F430 it means that the TC is "strong" on the max setting.
In this mod (fantastic mod!!!!!!!!) you can't hear that.
If on real F430 ther is a "TC override" button, it means that the real TC doesn't allow you a 360 spin...

If you know italian language, this is a great F430 cockpit explanation by Thomas Biagi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAqwOl31-AU at min 5:55 ther is the TC override.
:salut:
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lemming77
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Sat 8 Jan - 11:03

You've got a point then. :P Ok one last wild stab in the dark from me, then I'll stop making a fool of myself. :)

Earlier, Mad King told us that the cars can have up to 8 TC settings, whereas rFactor only allows for 3. Could it be that the 3 which are simulated just happen to be the 3 lowest settings?
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miRko74
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Sat 8 Jan - 11:09

lemming77 wrote:
You've got a point then. :P Ok one last wild stab in the dark from me, then I'll stop making a fool of myself. :)

Earlier, Mad King told us that the cars can have up to 8 TC settings, whereas rFactor only allows for 3. Could it be that the 3 which are simulated just happen to be the 3 lowest settings?

Yes, may be... on the real F430 there are 6 TC positions: 3 for dry conditions, and 3 for wet conditions. Maybe only the dry conditions TC settings are simulated (lowest)...
:salut:
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NightSt@lk3r
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Sat 8 Jan - 11:17

The real 997 RSR has 12 TC settings, again Porsche out do Ferrari :ptdr:
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MaD_King
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Sat 8 Jan - 11:20

The TC in rfactor is very limited, so it react as it react.
In real, they cut some cylinder to manage the power when TC is on, in rFactor it's not like this so we can't compare all the point about this :(.

So its impossible to compare with reality, we can pass over some limitation of rFactor, so it's adapted to have a "normal" behavior on track but not in all situations.

To finish the TC full it's not voluntary put at 100%. In real they have about 7 to 12 step of TC, in rF only 3 ...
So we have make choices to cover the range needed with what we have.
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miRko74
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Sat 8 Jan - 11:27

MaD_King wrote:
The TC in rfactor is very limited, so it react as it react.
In real, they cut some cylinder to manage the power when TC is on, in rFactor it's not like this so we can't compare all the point about this :(.

So its impossible to compare with reality, we can pass over some limitation of rFactor, so it's adapted to have a "normal" behavior on track but not in all situations.

To finish the TC full it's not voluntary put at 100%. In real they have about 7 to 12 step of TC, in rF only 3 ...
So we have make choices to cover the range needed with what we have.

Ok, thank you! But you may think to assign only to the max setting (third step) the max cut off (100%) power.. or not? :look:
For example 25% cut off for step one, 50% cut off for step two, and 100% cut off for step three :id2:


Last edited by miRko74 on Sat 8 Jan - 11:35; edited 3 times in total
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miRko74
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Sat 8 Jan - 11:30

NightSt@lk3r wrote:
The real 997 RSR has 12 TC settings, again Porsche out do Ferrari :ptdr:

Too much extra work that can distract the driver in the Porsche ... Ferrari is more optimized.. :ptdr:
:k2k:
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lemming77
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Sat 8 Jan - 12:44

Agreed, I'll take the streamlined Italian over the complicated German. :P

If not by cutting power or putting on the brakes, how exactly does the TC and rev limiter work in rFactor?
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Pandamasque
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Sat 8 Jan - 15:18

lemming77 wrote:
If not by cutting power or putting on the brakes, how exactly does the TC and rev limiter work in rFactor?
Let's just say it has nothing to do with ignition unlike in real cars. I guess it works in the way it would've work on an electric motor. :hein:
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lemming77
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PostSubject: Re: Traction Control   Sat 8 Jan - 16:50

Oh I see. :p
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